Today I looked at the deadlines for Cal States, and the deadline for application for Cal State Long Beach was August 31. So. I applied at Cal State Dominguez Hills. I know I've been a little ambivalent about going to University, and it's true, I'm not really concerned where I get my Bachelor's from, truth be told, I really don't care. At least, if I wanted to go to Long Beach, it's not the end of things if I go to Dominguez Hills. At least they are accepting applications. I mean, should I really be more concerned with this? Isn't a BA kind of general thing to get? I can't afford to go a private University, simply because I can afford to, and I won't shell out all this money to learn the same material, just so the visiting speaker can be someone like the President of Iran and I get a ticket. I mean, if I really cared about things like that, I wouldn't be at Fullerton, right? And look what I would have missed. I would have missed out on all you fabulous people. Plus, I might be able to get my other degree there, African American studies, or they might call it Afro-Ethnic studies, at the same time. That would be great. And I may see if I can apply for the Fall 2008 term at Long Beach, and only go for one semester at Dominguez Hills. I'm not sure how that works, but I figure it might because it's all the same Cal State system.
So I applied. It's exciting, but scary. Since every semester at Fullerton got better and better, with this being my favorite so far, I'm sad to go. Of course I'll KIT, but there will be a closeness, an intamacy, that is lost. I've loved being a part of your lives, in moments so fleeting but ever meaningful. I've been one of thousands of faces for you, but you are part of a select few that I will remember forever.
15 comments:
You can't remember me forever because that implies ceasing to interact and just sticking me in the memory file. And, actually, it does matter where you get your BA, although I don't think there's too much difference between Cal States. Its more about the other students that you will meet!
I haven't been much for other students. And how does it matter? I'm not trying to be cantankerous, I just don't understand why it matters where I go. I want to teach inner city kids -- or at least be able to relate to them. I can't go to the school where all the lovely white children go. What kind of message is that? By the way, KIT means keep in touch. Oh, I will be touching you, my friend.
On the undergraduate level, I'm not sure that it does matter a great deal. Many of the programs are remarkably similar at that level. It's really much more of an issue when you get to the graduate level, I think.
You will discover when you transfer and are taking classes with other people who are English majors at the junior and senior level that they are much more "serious" about the study of literature than many of our students seem to be. There will be people you will want to befriend because they do share your love of literature.
You will have a blast wherever you go. I have no doubts about your future success and happiness.
Thanks, man. I hope to get my MFA from a really great school. Thanks for the support. Coming from such a realist, those are great compliments.
To clarify: I don't think it matters which CAL STATE one attends. Otherwise, I absolutely disagree with Joe. When I compare what I had to do to earn a BA, and what I learned at that level at Occidental, to what students were doing in SENIOR SEMINARS at Cal State LA when I was getting my MA -- well, there IS no comparison. We worked MUCH harder and had far more in-depth, critical, thoughtful discussions. We would have read and discussed Moby Dick in ONE week's time. And the majority of the class would have read it. The competition (whilst friendly) was intense. The papers that we wrote, compared to the papers I saw at Cal State LA, looked as if they were written in different universes. I STRUGGLED to get an A minus on SOME papers at Occidental. At Cal State, it was always "oooo brilliant...." I knew better, but I wouldn't have known better had I not attended Oxy. Similarly, although I HATE USC (sorry Joe), in looking at the amount of work that my friend who attends USC is doing, compared to what my friend at KSU is doing, again, KSU really pales.
This matters because when one is no longer the smartest person in the class, when the other students challenge one to think in new ways, when the professors demand one's best, rather than just "good enough," one rises to the challenge. The student accomplishes more, learns more, becomes a better scholar. It is that simple.
Plus, the kind of loyalty that my friends and I feel towards Occidental is real and intense. I realize that others may feel similar loyalty to USC or UCLA (but it seems to be towards the football teams, rather than their friends/professors/the institution itself), but I don't think it matches up.
Now, none of this probably matters TOO much in terms of career. Intelligent, intellectual, hard-working people will be such no matter where they get their degrees. My father-in-law is one of the most intellectual, well-read, and curious individuals whom I've ever met, and he didn't attend college at all. You will be a successful teacher no matter where you earn your BA. But to say it doesn't matter at all -- well, I disagree. And I disagree HARD (lol).
Lest this seems mean or distressing, a place like Fullerton College and, similarly Cal State, serves a vital function. People who weren't directed towards college, whose parents did not teach them early on that college was "a must," whose life circumstances (whatever those may be) prevented them from doing the "traditional get high SAT's get into the best college possible, etc. etc.pathway," realize how fantastically bright and fabulous they are and are given the opportunity to explore themselves as students and people at Fullerton. We exist so that "non-traditional" students can find a pathway to academic success. We serve many other functions as well, but that is certainly one of them. You, my friend Gavin, my friend Jules, I think were well served at the community college. And, in turn, you give people like me hope and something to look forward to when we go to teach our classes and read papers.
Ultimately, maybe I make too much of all this. I did not attend a fabulous graduate school (Cal State and then UCR), but before I graduated, I had published 3 articles in major journals and published 3 more after I earned my Ph.D. As a result, I did interview at several "Research I" universities as well as private colleges and Cal States. So I'm not even sure that where you attend graduate school matters as much as we might think (although people who attend fabulous graduate schools like Harvard and Yale certainly DON'T have to work as hard just to get an interview). But, given my "life circumstances," I ended up teaching at the same type of institution that many people who have not pursued Ph.D.s also teach. I value my experience at Occidental NOT because I think it improved my career path, but because I learned so very much there that I would not have learned elsewhere.
So, in the end, there's lots of different pathways and circumstances and, basically, unpredictable things that happen that also end up directing where we end up. Where you get your BA is only one small thing in a big heap of small things.
But, and I swear this is my last note on the subject, I really object to people who say that "it doesn't matter" where you get your degree. I feel that it devalues the hard work that I, and people like me, did in order to earn a degree that, at least to me, represents more than a BA from a lesser institution. That may sound elitist, but you know what, elitists are sometimes right. And, by the by, I was not a rich white kid. I'm white, but, in common parlance, I'm white trash. If nothing else, my lack of spoken vocabulary and tendency to refer to trailer parks should indicate that!
Peace Out!
I am no rich white kid myself. And I think Blythe is indeed making too much of this. And if you read my comments, I never said it didn't matter.
Well, okay, you said it didn't matter too much. I think it does, but only for certain reasons, and career choice isn't one of them. Anyway, again, most of my opinions are filtered through my own experience. Occidental changed my life. Absolutely. No question. Subsequent institutions really didn't. Whether such a school changes everyone's life is another question, I suppose, and one that I can't answer with certainty. But I guess I am reacting to what I see as an overall devaluation of education as an INTELLECTUAL pursuit as opposed to training. Anyway, said I wouldn't say more and now I won't! (Unless you provoke me again Joe!)
Whoah.
(I like to think I struggle to get As. I do! It takes me a whole DAY to write a paper, sometimes. Just kidding!)
This though, made me feel ashamed:
**This matters because when one is no longer the smartest person in the class, when the other students challenge one to think in new ways, when the professors demand one's best, rather than just "good enough," one rises to the challenge. The student accomplishes more, learns more, becomes a better scholar. It is that simple. **
OUCH! How did you know I was going to Cal State just to have shot at being the smartest in the class? I'm not being funny. I have actually thought of this. But I always see myself as very dedicated, no matter what.
It's funny, being a high school drop out, when I started at Fullerton College I was terrified that I would be too stunted from dropping out of school to be able to function well. I think I am a pretty non traditional student. Acutally, I think I'm crazy most of the time. And yes, I need to get on the ball with what little A Type personality I possess.
As far as my comfort level goes with other students, college is different for me in that I'm ten years older than most everyone else, I've been married for ten years, and I'm not very social. True, I have had these suprising cool friendships with you in the department, but I even marvel at that. I attribute that mostly to how great you guys are.
I will most likely never get a MFA from Harvard, or Dartmouth; I would be lucky to be able to afford a program at UCLA. Actually, I consider myself ultra fortunate to get to go college at all. Going to Cal State, no matter how suited to analysis I think I am, is going to take everything out of me. I seriously have a mashed potato brain. I can blog -- because there's hardly punishment for lack of focus. I don't follow formal train of thought well. I don't like how I organize my essays. I constantly use deduction instead of induction. Ideas are one thing, but formal reasoning is another. If I have ONE teacher as supportive and amazing as you all have been, I imagine that it will be a winning situation, but even at a Cal State, it will not be without bloodletting. By the way, I haven't gotten any As at Fullerton that I didn't feel I sweated over. Fullerton's English instructors are not push overs. Jeanne grades very stringently, but not unfairly (I didn't get an A in her class, and not because I didn't work my tail off!), Joe was always kicking my butt; not easy! Not at all. I don't know. I hope I maximize my potential. I hope I keep motivated.
And I have been accused of being elitist. It's not the worst way to be, but it is lonely.
And I would love to be poor...er! Than I could get government aid! (See, I want to go to an elite school. I just don't want to pay for it.)
Drat! I suppose I have been revealed for the fraud that I am. I had hoped that my words of encouragement to Brooke could not be read so as to reveal their true intent: the complete degradation of the educational system as a site of intellectual pursuit, with the goal of advocating that it be instead a site of nothing more than mere "training." Alas, given my blatant and consistent anti-intellectualism, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that my nefarious plot would be exposed. If I had attended better schools myself, maybe I would have been able to achieve a greater level of covertness.
I still think that the student is more important than the college she/he attends. And that's why I still think/feel/believe that Brooke will do well no matter where she goes. However, in the interest of avoiding further provocation, I will strive in the future only to express opinions that coincide with Blythe's.
Joe! You are getting too cranky!! I need to take you for a drink. Then maybe you need to bake some more pies. Yes, pies and drinks are what we need.
Wow. Everyone has so much to say on this subject. I feel like I should get in there.
I went to CSUF for BA and MA. And I do not think that I need to apologize for this, but I probably would have handled things differently if I was not a parent at 20.
Nevertheless, at the risk of sounding to conciliatory, I agree with Blythe and Joe.
Blythe: This is going to sound arrogant, but I was always the smartest person in my class. I was never challenged by my peers in the way that Blythe has described. Also, I regret that. The metal sharpening metal thing. I probably never found that upper limit, and I wish that I had. I am envious of Blythe's experience. Even in graduate school, I would sit in class sometimes thinking, "Who are these idiots, and how on earth are they in this class with me?" Talk about elitist.
Joe: I still think that Joe is right that the most important factor is the student, and I was able to carve out a very fine education for myself. I have good friends with professors who did challenge me. Most importantly I challenged myself because I cared about what I was doing. I was always a self-starter when it came to my literary education, and that did serve me well.
Synthesis: Although the student is the biggest factor, the school is a pretty big variable.
Brooke: My advice is to aim for the biggest goddamn mountain you can image, and then try to climb it. And student loans are a small price to pay.
And Joe is a little extra-cranky this semester, methinks.
And also, feel good about wherever you go. And if you need assistance in that department, I think that I speak for us all when I say we are happy to help you out.
You folks need to have your sarcasm detectors checked. They are obviously faulty.
Dearest Joe: I love you -- smooch smooch. You and Phil always puzzle me to death; I can never tell whether you are serious or joking (probably why I find both of you so ENDLESSLY fascinating -- yes, I am sucking up, but this is actually true); one time I wrote a note to Phil and said, "I can't tell if you are serious?" and his reply was, "Always/Never."
It is so fun to blog with you guys; I really appreciate Brooke's giving us this forum.
Brandon is absolutely right. And you don't sound arrogant.
I want some pie and some drinks.
By the way -- Blythe said that she made up the whole Moby Dick is post-modern. She said you copied, then went neener neener neener.
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